Poker with Friends
So I finally ginned it up on Tuesday to go play at the Muck. The usual cast of players that had a guest appearance by none other than my good friend Aaron. I talked him into playing just to go have some fun and play a little. He begrudgingly agreed but I think at the end of the day he had a good enough time to think about maybe doing this on a somewhat regular basis with me. I don't know if that is a good thing or not as he is a great player and I don't think I want him in the game all the time. One of the unique things last night was that I had two good friends in the game with me. Sean was there too and I feel badly when any one of us lose, but of course some of us have to. I play hard against all players, including friends, and they will play back at me, but of course I would rather get my money elsewhere in the game, and you get your cards when you get them so you play them the best you know how. I HATE when players play soft against friends. It borders on cheating when there is pile of action with two friends in the pot and then when it is down to heads up they check it down. That said off to the game.
The game was good as usual, with some soft spots and some good players. Aaron changes the dynamic of any game he is in. The first of which was that we kicked up the usual $50/100 game to $75/150 because he kept insisting we play higher. Second, he is super aggressive, and playing at a limit well below what he normally plays this allowed him to amp up his aggressiveness even more and feel totally comfortable. The final aspect to his game is he is a non stop talker and loves to complain and whine and tell you how well he played a hand and how poorly you played a hand. This is just part of his game and if you are not used to that in a game it can really get to you. He actually drove Pete out of the game I think because he just did not want to play in that atmosphere. He will put you on tilt fast, and his personality will create confusion, anger, and the need to feel like you need to pay him back. He will bluff you out of a pot when you have the best and then you will pay him off when he has the nuts. He clouds the game with his persona, it is a wonder to see. The other thing the criticism does is that if you listen to it you start to play tighter and more predictable which plays right into his hands. He will play a marginal hand aggressively, and if you are playing tight and predictable he can put you on a hand or assume a big hand, but you will not be able to put him on a hand. I have played with him enough to ignore the comments and actions, but I too fall victim to some of his tricks every now and then. I don't think he is doing this on purpose it just is the way he plays, part of his natural style. He also maximizes almost all pots that he has the best hand in. He gets check raises in spots I would bet out, and raises on the river when no one has the nuts but he just knows he has the better hand. Getting those extra value bets and raises really add up over the course of a night. I am working on making better reads and value betting hands better on the river, but still don't have it to his level in my game. I also am a work in progress on not paying off on the river when I know I am beat. He actually errors on the paying off too much side, but because he wins so many marginal pots with bets and bluffs this works for him and is probably positive EV in the game for him. One hand last night that I watched at the end which still confounds me and wrapped up a hole lot of what Aaron is in a nut shell.
Aaron raises from early position and I think he gets 3 or 4 callers. That is a lot of callers in this size of a game, but because he has been fairly aggressive over the course of the night and because of his personality he gets called. I did not start watching this pot until the turn so I am a little foggy on the details before the turn but Flop comes I think 9 high clubs and he bets out and gets raised by a late position player. Aaron of course three bets and gets called by the one late position player. Turn came a Ks, Aaron bets, LP raise, A three bets, LP cap. River some low and meaningless card also not a club. Aaron checked, LP bet and Aaron now raises. LP thinks for a long time here and then FOLDS. WHAT?? I thought LP was thinking three bet or call, fold is not even an option here. LP is getting over 15 to one or so on the river bet to pick off a bluff or some other draw. I don't know what either party held nor am I going to believe either one when they tell me, but you have to pay off the river check raise. Once you decide to put that much action in on the turn and make the pot that big you must call one more bet even with A high. Wow he can make people do some strange things.
Also, I learned a new term last night. I love the concept. Aaron coined the phrase "Value Cheating" a play on the value bet or value raise. This is when you pretty much know you are behind on the turn and have a draw, second pair, or overcards and make a play at the pot and check raise or raise in LP and then hit your hand on the river and bet out and get called. It achieves two goals, #1) You get more money into the pot so when you hit you have won a bigger pot. #2) You put you opponent on tilt because you raised with the worst hand and hit your 2,3,9 outer on the river and completely pissed them off. This is just hilarious.
So how did I do? I sat there and played pretty tight, I had Aaron to my direct left which could have not been a worse spot to have him in, but hey that happens. I did not get too out of line because I knew he was going to be super aggressive and if I raised with a goofy hand hoping to get a few callers and hit a well hidden hand he was most likely going to three bet me and drive all the value out of any goofy hand I played. So I sat and watched most of the night and played my big hands hard. I ended up the night up just short of a rack which was cool and went home happy. Aaron ended up the night good winner, he stayed after I left and played 4 handed with two really bad players and one good one. I am sure that was fun to watch, they had no chance. They could be put in that spot with Aaron and lose 9 out of 10 times. The only chance they would have is luck.
Fun night with friends, hope we get to do it next week. Hope you are all winning and talk to you soon...SJ
The game was good as usual, with some soft spots and some good players. Aaron changes the dynamic of any game he is in. The first of which was that we kicked up the usual $50/100 game to $75/150 because he kept insisting we play higher. Second, he is super aggressive, and playing at a limit well below what he normally plays this allowed him to amp up his aggressiveness even more and feel totally comfortable. The final aspect to his game is he is a non stop talker and loves to complain and whine and tell you how well he played a hand and how poorly you played a hand. This is just part of his game and if you are not used to that in a game it can really get to you. He actually drove Pete out of the game I think because he just did not want to play in that atmosphere. He will put you on tilt fast, and his personality will create confusion, anger, and the need to feel like you need to pay him back. He will bluff you out of a pot when you have the best and then you will pay him off when he has the nuts. He clouds the game with his persona, it is a wonder to see. The other thing the criticism does is that if you listen to it you start to play tighter and more predictable which plays right into his hands. He will play a marginal hand aggressively, and if you are playing tight and predictable he can put you on a hand or assume a big hand, but you will not be able to put him on a hand. I have played with him enough to ignore the comments and actions, but I too fall victim to some of his tricks every now and then. I don't think he is doing this on purpose it just is the way he plays, part of his natural style. He also maximizes almost all pots that he has the best hand in. He gets check raises in spots I would bet out, and raises on the river when no one has the nuts but he just knows he has the better hand. Getting those extra value bets and raises really add up over the course of a night. I am working on making better reads and value betting hands better on the river, but still don't have it to his level in my game. I also am a work in progress on not paying off on the river when I know I am beat. He actually errors on the paying off too much side, but because he wins so many marginal pots with bets and bluffs this works for him and is probably positive EV in the game for him. One hand last night that I watched at the end which still confounds me and wrapped up a hole lot of what Aaron is in a nut shell.
Aaron raises from early position and I think he gets 3 or 4 callers. That is a lot of callers in this size of a game, but because he has been fairly aggressive over the course of the night and because of his personality he gets called. I did not start watching this pot until the turn so I am a little foggy on the details before the turn but Flop comes I think 9 high clubs and he bets out and gets raised by a late position player. Aaron of course three bets and gets called by the one late position player. Turn came a Ks, Aaron bets, LP raise, A three bets, LP cap. River some low and meaningless card also not a club. Aaron checked, LP bet and Aaron now raises. LP thinks for a long time here and then FOLDS. WHAT?? I thought LP was thinking three bet or call, fold is not even an option here. LP is getting over 15 to one or so on the river bet to pick off a bluff or some other draw. I don't know what either party held nor am I going to believe either one when they tell me, but you have to pay off the river check raise. Once you decide to put that much action in on the turn and make the pot that big you must call one more bet even with A high. Wow he can make people do some strange things.
Also, I learned a new term last night. I love the concept. Aaron coined the phrase "Value Cheating" a play on the value bet or value raise. This is when you pretty much know you are behind on the turn and have a draw, second pair, or overcards and make a play at the pot and check raise or raise in LP and then hit your hand on the river and bet out and get called. It achieves two goals, #1) You get more money into the pot so when you hit you have won a bigger pot. #2) You put you opponent on tilt because you raised with the worst hand and hit your 2,3,9 outer on the river and completely pissed them off. This is just hilarious.
So how did I do? I sat there and played pretty tight, I had Aaron to my direct left which could have not been a worse spot to have him in, but hey that happens. I did not get too out of line because I knew he was going to be super aggressive and if I raised with a goofy hand hoping to get a few callers and hit a well hidden hand he was most likely going to three bet me and drive all the value out of any goofy hand I played. So I sat and watched most of the night and played my big hands hard. I ended up the night up just short of a rack which was cool and went home happy. Aaron ended up the night good winner, he stayed after I left and played 4 handed with two really bad players and one good one. I am sure that was fun to watch, they had no chance. They could be put in that spot with Aaron and lose 9 out of 10 times. The only chance they would have is luck.
Fun night with friends, hope we get to do it next week. Hope you are all winning and talk to you soon...SJ
posted by Seattlejohn at 10:00 AM
4 Comments:
Good story about Aaron. I know I can be influenced by a good talker, so I'll avoid him if I see him.
You probably heard already, but there was a 3 handed 200/400 game at the Muck on Sunday night. Three 20-somethings. I couldn't stay to watch because I got a 10/20 seat, but I heard that one of them got stuck for $40,000.
Yes, I know about the game. It was a few of the names that I already talk about in the $50 game once in a while. I don't think anyone lost $40,000 but in that game you can lose $20k easy. By the way they were playing up in Maryswille last night. I have not been feeling that great about my game to want to play in that game. Plus I really dislike one of the players in the game as well and it was 4 handed so you could not avoid him. Hope you had a way better night than I did last night. Will post about it later. SJ
When I walked up to you as I was leaving, I was floating on a cloud. I tripled up in less than one hour at 10/20 so I decided to leave. I didn't notice until after I started talking to you that your chip stack was a bit shorter.
Sorry if I bugged you - few things are more annoying than talking to someone who's winning when you are stuck.
I hope the cards turned around for you after I left.
-DrC
just wanna say i really enjoyed this post - kudos.
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